Advising army generals on economics

Monday, 21 December 2009 19:26 Mizzima News (Interview)

Mizzima News - The United Nations Under-Secretary and Economics and Social Commission Asia-Pacific (ESCAP) Executive Secretary Noeleen Heyzer along with Nobel Prize winning economist Joseph Stiglitz visited Burma’s capital Naypyitaw on December 14, 2009 and held discussions with the Burmese military government on poverty reduction and economic development, especially in the rural sector.

Before briefing the press on Monday in Singapore Management University (SMU), Mizzima’s correspondent caught up with Dr. Heyzer, for a brief interview on their visit to Burma and the topics that they had discussed with the ruling military Generals.

Q. What did the Burmese ministers mainly discuss about economic reforms for the real development at the roundtable?

Ans. Well many issues were discussed, one of the major areas that we looked at, was the countries credit policy and how important it is for farmers to have access to capital so that they can buy seeds and fertilizers and also to come out of poverty. Because what we saw through research findings that was presented was that the farmers were highly indebted to informal lenders, and some of them are charging as high as about 10% a month for credit. And therefore it is critical that we provide farmers with credit and to get them out of these indebtednesses.

Besides credit, we also looked at the issue of employment and income security as well as human capacity building. There was again evidence that many of the highly skilled people are in fact aging. And therefore human resources in Myanmar [Burma] will have to be strengthened.

But at the same time to get out of poverty one has to invest in skill building, especially since the second revolution, agricultural revolution will be not just labour intensive, but it will also be based in terms of a higher level of technology and often knowledge. And therefore you have to prevent your human resources from being deskilled and you have to invest in education, so this was the other area.

But the point is, how do you recreate employment and income security as much as part of the larger agenda of stability and security in this country, that you cannot have security and stability without economic and social development.

I think the other area we talked about was of course the fact that besides farmers there were also large number of casual workers and that we need to develop some forms of social protection, including employment guarantees, non wage agricultural work, crop insurance and that we need to build the social foundations for more communities especially because Myanmar [Burma] in the world is the second most disaster prone area, especially in terms of climate change. It is the country that is most affected by climate change, Cyclone Nargis is one but at the same time there are other changing weather patterns that need to be taken into account.

We also talked about the use of national revenue and how to ensure that this is used where it is needed and that there's also transparency in the financial system and budgeting system.

Q: We heard that Burma will be granted a loan for its agricultural development. Is this true?

Ans: I'm not sure of that, I think you have to check with the monetary fund, I don't have any idea of that.

Q: What do you think about the loan? Should Burma get the loan for agricultural development?

Ans: Well you know at the current moment Myanmar [Burma] has the lowest percentage per capita of overseas development aid, it’s at three dollars. You compare countries like Zimbabwe, or even Cambodia and Laos, but they get so much more. In fact, some figures even similar countries have about anywhere between 40$ to 60$ US per capita and therefore there is a need to increase overseas development assistance to Myanmar on behalf of its people. This whole meeting is about reaching the bottom half, reaching the farmers, reaching the small holders and therefore it is critical that we provide assistance where assistance is needed.

Q: Do you think you had an effective talk with the Burmese generals and ministers in your trip to Burma?

Ans: I think so I think that what I found was that there they were willing to listen, they listened very attentively. It was a nine hour session and at dinner and lunch they asked very penetrating questions. I think this is the first step of a long process; any development is a long process, its starts with listening, its starts with conversation, it starts with understanding. But then at the end of the day we need to expose any country to good practices and bad practices, what to avoid and what to actually develop in terms of development practices. And therefore this was an attempt to share some of the best thinking and the best development practices.

But of course all we can do is you hope that after providing the analysis the policy options, the good practices, that a lot of this will be converted into development action on the ground.

Q. Nobel Laureate Mr. Joseph Stiglitz said economics and politics are inseparable. Do you think that the Burmese generals will accept it since political reform will be essential for a country's economic development?

A. You know, I think one of the discussions that we had, and which was very much stressed, is the fact for any development to reach the bottom half of the people, you need to have active participation as well as to strengthen people's agency and this means a greater system of participation.

Q. Some were critical that you don't know the attitude of the Burmese regime in trusting their words. Critics said that the regime knows they need to reform but they don't want to release control, no way to political reform. What’s your response to that?

Ans: Yeah, I don't think that, I think what we are saying is that we understand that at the end of the day, we have to engage in order to give the best advice we possibly can. And this is the role of the United Nations but also to keep many of the engagements so that countries can actually take the steps to basically respond. We are interested because we want to help the country achieve the millennium development goal. And therefore it is not a fact that you know we don't understand the regime, it is helping to keep the regime more accountable if they would like to have greater acceptability in the outside world.

Q: We also have Burmese economists teaching in overseas universities, but the Burmese regime never takes their advice. Now that the regime accepted the visit of Professor Stiglitz from Columbia University do you know why they only accept foreign professors from aboard? Why don't they accept the advice and ideas of Burmese economists?

Ans: Well, I think you know for our meeting at the round table we did involve some of the local economists as well. I think this is trying to try to bring the interaction between the international as well as local, because I think what needs to be shown is to have a platform whereby the best ideas, people want to know what has worked outside. You know this is a country that has been so isolated so they are never sure what are the things that are working outside which they can use. And by having this international engagement and regional engagement, they are trying to build basic confidence about the type of actions that needs to be taken. And I think that at the end of the day it is trying to develop a bridge of trust so that they can listen to what has worked outside and what has not.

Q: Did you have any agreement with the Burmese regime while on your trip?

Ans: Well I think that one of the things is to make sure that these proceedings and the ideas discussed will be published and that it will be translated into Burmese and disseminated.