Monday, 17 October 2011 13:03 Ko Wild
(Interview) – Saw Tar Be, who was freed under last week’s amnesty, defected from the KNU to the government under the “arms for peace” program, only to face an 8-year prison sentence. Mizzima reporter Ko Wild talks to him about his regrets and his prison experience.
Question: To begin, tell us something of our background.
Answer: I’m Saw Bar Be. I’m from KNU 2nd Brigade, 6th Battalion, B Coy, Taungoo District. My native town is Yaythogalay village, Bawgaligyi village-tract, Thandaung Township in Karen State. I’m 26. I was released from Katha prison. First I was sent to Taungoo and then I was transferred to Mandalay and Katha. I spent a total of six years and two months in prison.
Q: What did you do in KNU?
A: I was a medic. I worked in Htee Tha Khee camp, B Co. under the 6th Battalion. Major Bawni had already left 6th Brigade when I joined the KNU.
Q: How were you arrested?
A: I joined the KNU in 2000 and attended medical training course in 2001 in KNU 2nd Brigade area. I defected to the government because of my low morale and crazy thinking.
After splitting from the KNU, I went over to government troops under their “arms for peace” programme. It was a farce.
Q: You said you helped on the KNU frontline. In which area?
A: The area under the 2nd Brigade controlled area. These areas are called a “black territory” by the government. It was in Yaythogyi, Bawgalai area.
Q: When did you split from KNU?
A: On February 21, 2005.
Q: How many people left crossed over to join the government peace program?
A: Only two of us; another medic named Saw Har Beer. We fled with arms, one M16 and one AK47. My friend brought 1 million kyat (about US$ 1,260). After we left Htee Tha Khee camp, we first met Captain Lwin Oo from government Infantry Battalion 73. The battalion was stationed in Zayatgyi at that time. We met government troops first in Yahthogyi camp on the frontline. Then I was sent to strategic command HQ in Bawgali and then to Paletwa bridge camp, which is on the Bawgali-Taungoo Highway. After that, a captain from Infrantry Battilion 26 picked me up in an army truck and sent me to Military Affairs Security (MAS-military intelligence) 11 in Taungoo under the command of Southern Command HQ. The commander of MAS 11 is Major Tun Tun Win. He didn’t say anything to me and sent me directly into battalion lockup.
Q: How did you know about this “arms for peace” programme’?
A: I heard it on the Burma Broadcasting Service (BBS).
Q: Why did you leave KNU?
A: No, it is not true I don’t like KNU. I left the KNU because of lack of proper thinking and farsightedness. I first thought fighting each other killed many people so peace would be okay. This is my personal view.
Q: The money that medic Saw Her Beer brought was KNU money?
A: Maybe. In fact, we were from different departments. I met him on that night, and we became friendly immediately as both of us were medics. He came from battalion HQ to the frontline and I met him in Htee Tha Khee camp. He rested that night after long journey, and then we fled together in the night. He told me let’s test what would happen. We wanted to test their peace propaganda. We left the KNU without proper thinking.
Q: Where is he now?
A: I don’t know. As soon as we were arrested, I lost contact with him.
Q: After being put into MAS lockup, what happened to you?
A: They interrogated me. What camps I stayed, what did I do? Where are the camps and locations; I had to answer all these questions. They didn’t torture me. I was at their mercy at that time. I spent a night there. Interrogation was done in the Southern Command HQ lockup. I forgot the names of the interrogators. Some were corporals and some were private rank. I was taken away in the morning to another place.
Q: Did you live with them (government soldiers) together? Did they separate you?
A: We lived together. The government soldiers lived in separate places, but the building was the same. They seized our arms and ammunitions. The soldiers there didn’t have arms. After being taken away from Southern Command HQ lockup, I had to undergo a series of more interrogations.
Q: After interrogation, what happened to you?
A: After staying there for some days, they planned to open a special region for peace at Thabyay Nyunt camp. This camp is in Karen State, Zayatgyi, Thandaung Township. This camp was built on lands seize from farmers without paying any compensation.
Q: Before building this Thabyay Nyunt camp, what did you do for them?
A: They used us in their military operations on the frontline along with government soldiers. The commander of the military column was Major Win Min Nyunt. They wanted to attack KNU outposts under command of 2nd Brigade where I served. But never reach that area. Then they killed two villagers on the way.
Q: Who killed the villagers?
A: The column led by Major Win Min Nyunt killed the villagers after accusing them of being rebels. They claimed that bombs were found in their palaing (a traditional bamboo container). But I found only fish paste cans on them. In fact they were on their way to their farm. Another villager was tied and accused of being a KNU rebel and then he was killed while the column was marching. He was killed by a lieutenant. Before killing these two villagers, they found a woman with some money, over 100,000 kyat. They seized the money from her. They arrested everyone found on their way. These innocent villagers were tortured severely. They started their march from Yaytagon village and were heading for Ohnbin Chaung.
Q: What was your duty in frontline with them? What did you do for them?
A: I worked for them as a guide but I had to follow their map references as they directed. We were on the frontline for about 5 to 10 days but we didn’t reach the KNU outpost. We marched in the monsoon season in 2005. Durian fruit was falling from the trees, maybe in July and August. There were no clashes or engagements. But we were attacked by KNU claymore mine on the way. They got angry and severely beat a Yaytagon village headman. His head was bleeding but they didn’t give medical treatment to him.
They gave uniforms to people and took photographs for their propaganda in their daily papers. They claimed the rebels returned to the legal fold, etc. The government departments concerned provided assistance to them.
Q: Please tell us about Thabyay Nyunt camp.
A: We were not recognized as a peace group that had defected from the KNU. Military intelligence brought in a clever businessman from town and gave him a uniform and then took photographs and said he was a peace group leader to be used in their propaganda. Our rations were not sufficient for us.
Q: How did you end up being sent to prison?
A: They arrested me on the morning of September 15, 2005. A man, Myint Zaw, framed me. Myint Zaw used me as the scapegoat to avoid being punished. I was taken to a MI 3 office near State High School No. 1 in Taungoo. At the Thaybyay Nynut camp, there were only villagers and children. Only I and Har Beer were from KNU. They pretended this camp was the place were member of the Peace group stayed. They used our names and exploited us, and the civilians ran this camp as their business. I came to Taungoo MI No. 3 detachment when they abandoned this camp. Then military intelligence arrested me immediately without stating any reason. Captain Thein Nyunt was in-charge at that time. They interrogated me. They didn’t accept my statement, which were the real facts. They accepted only Myint Zaw’s version. They exploited us for their business. I was charged with section 17(1)(2) of the Unlawful Associations Act. Then I was given an 8-year prison term.
Q: Who sentenced you?
A: Judge Than Soe Myint from the Taungoo court. He pronounced the judgment on bench, but he told me that he had no authority or discretionary power in my case. He had to open the envelope containing the judgment given by the army and read it out. He told me this. The court didn’t consider our pleas and statements. They considered only the indictment given by the public prosecutor and sentenced us to imprisonment unfairly. The Taungoo court pronounced its judgment on maybe, I think, November 23, 2005. And then I was transferred to Mandalay Prison on January 21, 2006. They didn’t allow my family to see me when I was transferred to Mandalay. Most of us were not allowed. There were 19 former KNU soldiers imprisoned by charging them with sections 17(1)(2). They are Myint Aung, Tee Ke Lee, Saw Tar Tu Tu and Saw Aung Win. Saw Ohn Maung was sentenced to death. He is not from the KNU. He was a villager charged with communicating with KNU rebels. They were innocent.
Q: What about life in prison?
A: It as difficult. We were at their mercy. We could not say anything. We had to bear whatever they did. The years 2005-06 were the hard times for us. We had to obey whatever they said. The prison life became better and repression was eased only in 2010.
Q: Did you receive prison visits from your family?
A: I received visits only at distant intervals because my family lived far away. They could not afford to visit me. They came three times when I was in Katha Prison. There are seven siblings and my dad in our family. I am the third. I will know about them only after reaching home.
I lived with MP Saw Hlaing in Kathar Prison. He was from Sagaing Region, the Inndaw Township constituency. He was released on the same day on October 12. Mee Mee from the 88-generation group who was imprisoned under the Electronic Act; DVB reporter Hla Hla Win; Aunt Bwe Kyaw; Zaw Min Oo from Okpho, Mandalay; Aung Hlaing Min from Letpukan, Pale; an ethnic Rakhine, Tun Lin Kyaw, from Sittwe; Ye Khaung from Kyaukpadaung are still in the prison.
Most of us who were released from prison on that day had already served most of our prison terms. We were very close to our normal release date. I had to serve just 10-11 months more. In first presidential order, I got received a one-year commutation from my sentence.
Q: Will you join again KNU? What will you do?
A: No, I must go back to my village. I fear the government. They threatened me a lot. They didn’t accept even the peace group prisoners. We were taken away and given a prison term.
Q: What would you like to say to KNU and other armed groups?
A: I’d like to say regarding the peace issue, I don’t want anyone to undergo my fate while dealing with the government on the peace issue, either as an organization or as an individual.
(Interview) – Saw Tar Be, who was freed under last week’s amnesty, defected from the KNU to the government under the “arms for peace” program, only to face an 8-year prison sentence. Mizzima reporter Ko Wild talks to him about his regrets and his prison experience.
Question: To begin, tell us something of our background.
Answer: I’m Saw Bar Be. I’m from KNU 2nd Brigade, 6th Battalion, B Coy, Taungoo District. My native town is Yaythogalay village, Bawgaligyi village-tract, Thandaung Township in Karen State. I’m 26. I was released from Katha prison. First I was sent to Taungoo and then I was transferred to Mandalay and Katha. I spent a total of six years and two months in prison.
Q: What did you do in KNU?
A: I was a medic. I worked in Htee Tha Khee camp, B Co. under the 6th Battalion. Major Bawni had already left 6th Brigade when I joined the KNU.
Q: How were you arrested?
A: I joined the KNU in 2000 and attended medical training course in 2001 in KNU 2nd Brigade area. I defected to the government because of my low morale and crazy thinking.
After splitting from the KNU, I went over to government troops under their “arms for peace” programme. It was a farce.
Q: You said you helped on the KNU frontline. In which area?
A: The area under the 2nd Brigade controlled area. These areas are called a “black territory” by the government. It was in Yaythogyi, Bawgalai area.
Q: When did you split from KNU?
A: On February 21, 2005.
Q: How many people left crossed over to join the government peace program?
A: Only two of us; another medic named Saw Har Beer. We fled with arms, one M16 and one AK47. My friend brought 1 million kyat (about US$ 1,260). After we left Htee Tha Khee camp, we first met Captain Lwin Oo from government Infantry Battalion 73. The battalion was stationed in Zayatgyi at that time. We met government troops first in Yahthogyi camp on the frontline. Then I was sent to strategic command HQ in Bawgali and then to Paletwa bridge camp, which is on the Bawgali-Taungoo Highway. After that, a captain from Infrantry Battilion 26 picked me up in an army truck and sent me to Military Affairs Security (MAS-military intelligence) 11 in Taungoo under the command of Southern Command HQ. The commander of MAS 11 is Major Tun Tun Win. He didn’t say anything to me and sent me directly into battalion lockup.
Q: How did you know about this “arms for peace” programme’?
A: I heard it on the Burma Broadcasting Service (BBS).
Q: Why did you leave KNU?
A: No, it is not true I don’t like KNU. I left the KNU because of lack of proper thinking and farsightedness. I first thought fighting each other killed many people so peace would be okay. This is my personal view.
Q: The money that medic Saw Her Beer brought was KNU money?
A: Maybe. In fact, we were from different departments. I met him on that night, and we became friendly immediately as both of us were medics. He came from battalion HQ to the frontline and I met him in Htee Tha Khee camp. He rested that night after long journey, and then we fled together in the night. He told me let’s test what would happen. We wanted to test their peace propaganda. We left the KNU without proper thinking.
Q: Where is he now?
A: I don’t know. As soon as we were arrested, I lost contact with him.
Q: After being put into MAS lockup, what happened to you?
A: They interrogated me. What camps I stayed, what did I do? Where are the camps and locations; I had to answer all these questions. They didn’t torture me. I was at their mercy at that time. I spent a night there. Interrogation was done in the Southern Command HQ lockup. I forgot the names of the interrogators. Some were corporals and some were private rank. I was taken away in the morning to another place.
Q: Did you live with them (government soldiers) together? Did they separate you?
A: We lived together. The government soldiers lived in separate places, but the building was the same. They seized our arms and ammunitions. The soldiers there didn’t have arms. After being taken away from Southern Command HQ lockup, I had to undergo a series of more interrogations.
Q: After interrogation, what happened to you?
A: After staying there for some days, they planned to open a special region for peace at Thabyay Nyunt camp. This camp is in Karen State, Zayatgyi, Thandaung Township. This camp was built on lands seize from farmers without paying any compensation.
Q: Before building this Thabyay Nyunt camp, what did you do for them?
A: They used us in their military operations on the frontline along with government soldiers. The commander of the military column was Major Win Min Nyunt. They wanted to attack KNU outposts under command of 2nd Brigade where I served. But never reach that area. Then they killed two villagers on the way.
Q: Who killed the villagers?
A: The column led by Major Win Min Nyunt killed the villagers after accusing them of being rebels. They claimed that bombs were found in their palaing (a traditional bamboo container). But I found only fish paste cans on them. In fact they were on their way to their farm. Another villager was tied and accused of being a KNU rebel and then he was killed while the column was marching. He was killed by a lieutenant. Before killing these two villagers, they found a woman with some money, over 100,000 kyat. They seized the money from her. They arrested everyone found on their way. These innocent villagers were tortured severely. They started their march from Yaytagon village and were heading for Ohnbin Chaung.
Q: What was your duty in frontline with them? What did you do for them?
A: I worked for them as a guide but I had to follow their map references as they directed. We were on the frontline for about 5 to 10 days but we didn’t reach the KNU outpost. We marched in the monsoon season in 2005. Durian fruit was falling from the trees, maybe in July and August. There were no clashes or engagements. But we were attacked by KNU claymore mine on the way. They got angry and severely beat a Yaytagon village headman. His head was bleeding but they didn’t give medical treatment to him.
They gave uniforms to people and took photographs for their propaganda in their daily papers. They claimed the rebels returned to the legal fold, etc. The government departments concerned provided assistance to them.
Q: Please tell us about Thabyay Nyunt camp.
A: We were not recognized as a peace group that had defected from the KNU. Military intelligence brought in a clever businessman from town and gave him a uniform and then took photographs and said he was a peace group leader to be used in their propaganda. Our rations were not sufficient for us.
Q: How did you end up being sent to prison?
A: They arrested me on the morning of September 15, 2005. A man, Myint Zaw, framed me. Myint Zaw used me as the scapegoat to avoid being punished. I was taken to a MI 3 office near State High School No. 1 in Taungoo. At the Thaybyay Nynut camp, there were only villagers and children. Only I and Har Beer were from KNU. They pretended this camp was the place were member of the Peace group stayed. They used our names and exploited us, and the civilians ran this camp as their business. I came to Taungoo MI No. 3 detachment when they abandoned this camp. Then military intelligence arrested me immediately without stating any reason. Captain Thein Nyunt was in-charge at that time. They interrogated me. They didn’t accept my statement, which were the real facts. They accepted only Myint Zaw’s version. They exploited us for their business. I was charged with section 17(1)(2) of the Unlawful Associations Act. Then I was given an 8-year prison term.
Q: Who sentenced you?
A: Judge Than Soe Myint from the Taungoo court. He pronounced the judgment on bench, but he told me that he had no authority or discretionary power in my case. He had to open the envelope containing the judgment given by the army and read it out. He told me this. The court didn’t consider our pleas and statements. They considered only the indictment given by the public prosecutor and sentenced us to imprisonment unfairly. The Taungoo court pronounced its judgment on maybe, I think, November 23, 2005. And then I was transferred to Mandalay Prison on January 21, 2006. They didn’t allow my family to see me when I was transferred to Mandalay. Most of us were not allowed. There were 19 former KNU soldiers imprisoned by charging them with sections 17(1)(2). They are Myint Aung, Tee Ke Lee, Saw Tar Tu Tu and Saw Aung Win. Saw Ohn Maung was sentenced to death. He is not from the KNU. He was a villager charged with communicating with KNU rebels. They were innocent.
Q: What about life in prison?
A: It as difficult. We were at their mercy. We could not say anything. We had to bear whatever they did. The years 2005-06 were the hard times for us. We had to obey whatever they said. The prison life became better and repression was eased only in 2010.
Q: Did you receive prison visits from your family?
A: I received visits only at distant intervals because my family lived far away. They could not afford to visit me. They came three times when I was in Katha Prison. There are seven siblings and my dad in our family. I am the third. I will know about them only after reaching home.
I lived with MP Saw Hlaing in Kathar Prison. He was from Sagaing Region, the Inndaw Township constituency. He was released on the same day on October 12. Mee Mee from the 88-generation group who was imprisoned under the Electronic Act; DVB reporter Hla Hla Win; Aunt Bwe Kyaw; Zaw Min Oo from Okpho, Mandalay; Aung Hlaing Min from Letpukan, Pale; an ethnic Rakhine, Tun Lin Kyaw, from Sittwe; Ye Khaung from Kyaukpadaung are still in the prison.
Most of us who were released from prison on that day had already served most of our prison terms. We were very close to our normal release date. I had to serve just 10-11 months more. In first presidential order, I got received a one-year commutation from my sentence.
Q: Will you join again KNU? What will you do?
A: No, I must go back to my village. I fear the government. They threatened me a lot. They didn’t accept even the peace group prisoners. We were taken away and given a prison term.
Q: What would you like to say to KNU and other armed groups?
A: I’d like to say regarding the peace issue, I don’t want anyone to undergo my fate while dealing with the government on the peace issue, either as an organization or as an individual.
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